'Til Death Do Us Part?
I watch ATF tv every weekend. For those of you who do not know what that is, it's short for Acquire the Fire, Ron Luce's weekly television program about teens making the world their ministry. I am however getting tired of seeing the same four episodes in weekly rotation though. On one particular episode they showed footage from a stadium event, and a girl had brought all her secular music to the event to get rid of it. She didn't want the music and the destructive influence it had on her life anymore. That's great for her. I actually admire her strength and conviction. I sometimes wonder if I will do that one day. It's not looking good though, hehehehe.
I was wondering has anyone else done this or something similar to it? Did you bring all your secular music to an event to get rid of it, or have you gotten rid of it in another way? I still listen to alot of secular music. I don't differentiate between Christian and other types of music, although I realize I have done so for the topic of this post.
I've gone through the CD stores, and I've seen the Gospel section and the Christian section. I've seen the Rock section, the Pop section, the Hip-Hop/Rap section, etc. Opera and Classical sections are there too. There are some sections I've never seen though. For instance, I've never seen the Buddhist section, the Jewish section or the Hindu section. Do these faiths not have their own music? Or is it just catalogued under New Age and/or Spirituality?
All that to say this: to me music is music. I don't hold the position that any one type of music is inherently bad. Now a particular artist in a genre of music may put ideas out there and the lyrics to their songs may be offensive to you as a listener, that's true. But does that invalidate the entire genre? Does that make the whole type of music bad or "destructive" or my personal favorite "of the enemy"?
Your job as a consumer is to figure out who you like and who you don't like. Also, whether or not you believe the same things they do or not. If you don't share their particular views or sexual orientation, should that keep you from buying their music? Or maybe like me you don't overthink music this much and you just like to bang your head or sing along or dance in your car to the radio, or whatever it is you do when you enjoy music.
Up the irons!!! (sorry couldn't resist)
posted by Zecryphon | 8:23 PM
15 Comments:
You're not ridiculous, but the whole concept of "secular" music is. It's Churchianity's version of koshering... if music hasn't been blessed by the hands of the evangelical priesthood, hasn't been washed in the blood of Jesus, then it's not safe for a believer to consume. Forgive my French, but burning music because it's not "Christian" is just bullshit. If your fragile conscience can't take it, send it all to me and I'll keep it or sell it.
Well Jeff I'm sure I could hook you up with a web site or two that would point you to the next CD burning party. In fact, I think I will.
It just so happens that www.xanga.com/thefrontlines is just such a site, and of course there's always www.teenmania.com or www.battlecry.com for the next ATF event, where kids actually get rid of their "secular" music. I don't know, I just don't see myself parting with Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd, Rush, Queensryche, U2 or Stevie Ray Vaughan anytime soon. Not to mention the plethora of other devil worshippers I listen to!
The kid who runs the xanga site has actually video taped himself and his friends burning all their secular music, video games, books and magazines. I'll refrain from doing a mock heiling of Hitler at this point, it's so obvious it should come right about now isn't it? ;-)
As for you question of chords and which ones are not holy or sanctified. I would have to guess that you have it backwards. Isn't 6 the number of man and 7 the number of Heaven or something like that? My numerology is a little weak. Uh oh! I'm doing numerology I must be dunked immediately for I have turned to the dark side for sure. Just call me Darth Zecryphon from now on LMAO!!!
Is it not true that everyone has their own convictions? Is it not true that what might be okay for one person could be wrong for another person? And what about building each other up?
I ask all of the above, because it seems as if these comments have only been posted in order to mock those who have been convicted, as far as the music they listen to is concerned. And I may be the only one who feels this way - but I don't appreciate that.
Different people, different upbringing, different relationships with God - our differences make life interesting & challenging - it would be really boring if everyone felt the same way and said & did the same things. Though Christians (and non-Christians, too) are very diverse in their lifestyles & beliefs, I hardly think mocking someone for doing something (something very difficult to do, at that) that they feel God is leading them to do is beneficial to our brothers and sisters or pleasing to God. None of us wish to be mocked for our personal beliefs and convictions, so perhaps we need to practice the Golden Rule, if we want others to respect us in return.
I myself am not mocking anyone for their beliefs. I don't see a difference between Christian and secular music. But I remember when I was attending a college group at my old church in CT. I was hanging out with ths girl and I asked her if she liked a particular band I can't remember who it was now, but she said very emphatically "Oh no, I hate secular music!"
I was stunned, then it dawned on me I didn't know what she was talking about. I thought to myself what's secular music?
I think Zeke brought up a good point. Christians classify what they think is bad as secular. I had never heard anyone outside of the church use this term, so where did it come from? I wrote it off as a Christian thing, and I was right.
Zecryphon, I do not have a problem with the original "Till Death Do Us Part?" article. I found it interesting & I feel that it gave everyone something to think about. I post on the Teen Mania message board, and I saw your "Not of this World" post earlier today, and decided I would check out the article in its entirety.
What I DO have a problem with are the subsequent comments on the topic, made especially by Jeff & yourself. It is true that not all "Christian" music is beneficial to listen to and not all "secular" music is "bad." Each person must make that decision for themselves - with God's help & discretion. I agree that there are way too many self-righteous, "Bible thumping" type Christians out there. And I'm truly sorry that you (and probably others here as well) have been hurt by these people in the past.
It may be true that you can listen to music and not allow the themes or words of the songs get to you. Again, though, this is an example of how everyone is different. Some people can become very affected by what they listen to - be that conversations with others, television, movies, music - whatever. And for that reason, it may be VERY necessary for them to sacrifice their so-called "secular" music to God, in order to better themselves. It's not up to any one of us to decide for any one else. So, instead of laughing about it (not that I'm accusing you of laughing about it) or thinking it's silly, why can't we recognize that it's a sacrifice they have made - with a clear conscience and a heart that is seeking God - and provide encouragement & support for them?
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my earlier post. And I'm glad to know that your intent wasn't to mock other Christians for their convictions and beliefs.
I think it's one thing to be "convicted" of something by the Holy Spirit (but, what happened to "all things are pure"?). But it's entirely another thing to have been manipulated by religious zealots who desire to "conform" you into their image of righteousness. We are so easily sucked into schemes intended to "cure" us of our sinfulness (by the way, what did Jesus do?) and there are many well-intentioned, but severely mis-guided, people out there willing to take advantage of that fact.
Christianity is the religion of "fixers" who fail to recognize that the work of the Cross already "fixed" everything.
Hi bruced,
I have a few comments on some of the things you've said:
You said: (but, what happened to "all things are pure"?).
What about 1 Corinthians 6:12? This verse, if you're not already familiar with it, states that all things are permissable, but not all things are beneficial. This is very true. God gives us free will, because he doesn't desire to have human robots pointlessly walking around, without purpose, doing things a certain way only because they know no different. But not everything that we are free to choose will be beneficial to us - physically, emotionally, or most important - spiritually.
You said: "But it's entirely another thing to have been manipulated by religious zealots who desire to "conform" you into their image of righteousness."
I agree. But it is not our place to decide whether "Person A" has been manipulated, or whether or not it is genuine conviction from God....and it never will be our place to decide that. While you or I may think something is silly and that they may have been misguided, as you put it, it very well could be genuine. And I don't know about you, but if there is something that God is telling someone to do, I don't want to be the one to think it silly or unnecessary. I'm sure there were people - for example - in Biblical days, who thought Noah was pretty silly, unrealistic, etc., for building this huge boat, when no one had ever even seen rain before! I'm sure he was mocked and made fun of - even laughed at - but you know what? He continued to listen to God and do it anyway, because God had spoken to HIM about the importance of this boat he was to build.
You said: "Christianity is the religion of "fixers" who fail to recognize that the work of the Cross already "fixed" everything."
First of all, what is your interpretation of Matthew 5:48? This verse clearly says "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Secondly, I just have to say - the cross has not and will not fix everything for everybody. It is true that we all deserve death for our sins, but Jesus took on our sin and actually became a curse (Galatians 3:13), so that we could choose life, rather than death. But because we must choose that for ourselves, it isn't an accurate statement to say that the cross fixes everything. Furthermore, the decision to follow Christ is a daily task. We must remain in Him, in order for Him to remain in us (see John 15). Part of remaining in Him is seeking out His wisdom (the wisdom that may not always make sense to us) & being obedient, no matter what the cost. The cross IS NOT, WAS NOT, and will NEVER be a free ticket to heaven. The cross simply made the option available to us, because without it, God would have no other choice but to sentence us to death. We're so unworthy of His gift (I know I am), but He loves us enough to die for us anyway. The LEAST we could do in return is to live in full submission to Him (I am stepping on my own toes as I type this, by the way - I am in no way perfect, nor do I claim to have all the answers).
I'm not trying to convince anyone to get rid of anything - that is not my heart's motive or intent. I'm simply asking that you respect other people's decisions to make sacrifices for God. We should all think less about whether or not the church has "programmed" us to say/do/feel certain things, and be a lot MORE concerned with what GOD is saying. Each person's relationship with God is a very personal thing, and each relationship is different.
So, it's all about US, and what we do, that determines our redemption/salvation/reconciliation?
"The cross simply made the option available to us"
You have missed the point of the work of the cross completely. But, that's OK... it covers you anyway.
Great peace to you (if you have repsonded properly, obeyed completely, accepted fully, remained in Him correctly...)
Oh by the way, anonymous (if that really IS your name)... I didn't say that the person was manipulated by the religious system, I only suggested it as a possibility... although I go on record as believing that it is a very strong possibility.
The religious system draws upon people's fears to control them. Is it possible that the mission of Christ was to set people free from the burdens of religion and religious people?
Anonymous, I have a question for you. Are you by any chance Catholic? I don't care if you are or not, it's just that what you said in regards to the cross, seems to be along the lines of the way Catholics view what Jesus did for us.
Other Catholics I have talked to believe that Jesus did not secure eternal life for us, but merely path to salvation, but we still have to earn it.
This doesn't sit to well with my interpretaion of Ephesians 2:8-9.
8. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9. not by works, so that no one can boast.
Nor does it seem to jibe with my interpretation of Romans 11:5-6.
5. So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6. And if by grace then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
From these verses does it sound like you have to earn salvation or that salvation has been given to you through the grace of God?
bruced -
Hi, my name is Ashley. I'm 24 and I live in NC. And, yes, Ashley is my real name. Yesterday was about the second or third time I've ever been to this blog, and I didn't want to take the time to register a name. I posted a comment anonymously because of convenience. Now that you know all of the unnecessary unimportant things about me and who I am (and hopefully you feel a bit more satisfied), let's move on to the real issues.
It's NOT all about us (don’t think I ever said that) - it's all about God. We can never be "good enough" to enter heaven, and therefore we must ask for God's grace and forgiveness.
What I meant by my statement that the cross made the option available to us is this: Just because Jesus died on the cross does not mean that everyone everywhere will automatically go to heaven. It's God's will that none should perish, but that all would come to eternal life. But we must make that decision ourselves. No one can make it for us. And when we make the decision, we must sincerely mean it, because God knows our heart, and can see straight through any fakeness in us. And I firmly believe that the sinner's prayer is only step 1 out of 100+. God never wanted us to simply stop there. When you truly love God and you're spending time with Him everyday, just as you would a friend, you become closer to Him & can hear His voice more clearly. In other words, your relationship with God is meant to grow through the years you're given here on this earth. Do I believe one can LOSE their salvation? No. Do I believe someone can CHOOSE to walk away from it? Yes. John 15 has helped me to come to that conclusion, over time.
It seem(ed) to me that some bloggers on this site have the attitude that because Jesus died on the cross, they have to do absolutely nothing, because the crucifixion alone has secured them a spot in heaven. That's not the case, because we have to choose that, and daily die to ourselves and live for God. That is what I meant by that statement. Hopefully it will no longer be misinterpreted going forward.
Zecryphon -
No, I am not Catholic, and yes, I have read all of the above verses before and believe them with all my heart.
I think my response to bruced probably could be addressed to you as well. So I guess there really is no need to elaborate anymore.
Geez, Ashley... I was just playing around with you. I'm sorry the written word didn't convey that properly.
I know what you believe. I used to believe quite the same thing. But, I have come to see that God's grace is immensely greater (possibly *unbelieveably* greater) than we can imagine. And, yes... I believe that our relationship with Him has nothing at all to do with "what we do", but instead with "what He has done." It's not about asking about forgiveness, but simply knowing that we are forgiven whether we want it or not.
It's OK though... you can believe whatever you want, it makes no difference to me. If our relationship with God (and with each other) depends on "believing" correctly, then none of us have a chance. It is only by His grace that the Creation had been redeemed to the Creator. You don't have to believe it, you only need to know it. Knowing that... will set you free!
Peace to you, my friend! And, lighten up... you ARE among friends.
Ashley said "because Jesus died on the cross, they have to do absolutely nothing, because the crucifixion alone has secured them a spot in heaven."
Yep, include me in "they".
There is nothing worth giving testimony to except Jesus and Him crucified. We can add nothing to the work of the cross. IT IS FINISHED!!!!
Zecryphon,
Several years ago I burnt a perfectly good collection of good music including one of the early White Albums. Wish I had them back now.
I agree to disagree (and I'm sorry it's taken so long for me to get back on here to post!)
I think it all depends on the lyrics of the songs. Check out the episode of the Way of the Master titled " Satanic Influence". Also, I ahve noticed a change in my behavior and actions when I stray from positive music and lyrics...Check out Falling Up if you like rock :o)
Post a Comment
<< Home